gnasher729
Jul 27, 05:59 PM
but is still more productive because it handles more calculations per clock cycle
I'm no processor geek. I have a basic understanding of the terminology and how things work so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this one of the advantages that the PPC had over Intel chips? Does this mean Intel is moving toward shorter pipes? Are we talking more instructions per clock cycle or what? What does "calculations" mean in this context?
With most processors, especially the Intel/AMD processors, "instructions per cycle" is not a useful number. These processors have both simple instructions (add register number 3 to register number 6) and complex instructions (add register number 3 to the number whose address is in register number 6). A PowerPC has the simple instructions, but not the complex ones. Instead it would need three instructions "load the number whose address is in register number 6, and move it to register 7", "add register 3 to register 7", "store register 7 to the location whose address is in register 6". But the Intel processor doesn't magically do three times as much work. Instead, it splits the complex instruction into three so-called "macro-ops", and does exactly the same work. So in this case, the PowerPC would execute three times as many instructions per cycle (3 instead of 1), but because it doesn't do more actual work, that is pointless. Instead you would count the number of operations, and they are more or less the same.
Intel is indeed moving towards shorter pipelines. They have done that already with the Core Duo chips. Longer pipelines have the advantage that each pipeline step is a bit faster, so you can get higher clockspeed. Shorter pipelines have the advantage that they take much less energy (very important; at some point your chips just melt), they are much faster handling branches, and they are just much much easier to design. Pentium 4 needed absolutely heroic efforts to produce it, and would have needed twice the heroics to improve it. Instead, the Core Duo has a much simpler design, that is just as powerful, and because it was so simple, Core 2 Duo could improve it.
And Core 2 Duo can now execute up to four "micro-ops" per cycle, same as the G5, compared to three for Core Duo, Pentium 4 and G4. It also has some clever features that reduce the number of micro-ops needed up to 10 percent, and some other improvements.
I'm no processor geek. I have a basic understanding of the terminology and how things work so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this one of the advantages that the PPC had over Intel chips? Does this mean Intel is moving toward shorter pipes? Are we talking more instructions per clock cycle or what? What does "calculations" mean in this context?
With most processors, especially the Intel/AMD processors, "instructions per cycle" is not a useful number. These processors have both simple instructions (add register number 3 to register number 6) and complex instructions (add register number 3 to the number whose address is in register number 6). A PowerPC has the simple instructions, but not the complex ones. Instead it would need three instructions "load the number whose address is in register number 6, and move it to register 7", "add register 3 to register 7", "store register 7 to the location whose address is in register 6". But the Intel processor doesn't magically do three times as much work. Instead, it splits the complex instruction into three so-called "macro-ops", and does exactly the same work. So in this case, the PowerPC would execute three times as many instructions per cycle (3 instead of 1), but because it doesn't do more actual work, that is pointless. Instead you would count the number of operations, and they are more or less the same.
Intel is indeed moving towards shorter pipelines. They have done that already with the Core Duo chips. Longer pipelines have the advantage that each pipeline step is a bit faster, so you can get higher clockspeed. Shorter pipelines have the advantage that they take much less energy (very important; at some point your chips just melt), they are much faster handling branches, and they are just much much easier to design. Pentium 4 needed absolutely heroic efforts to produce it, and would have needed twice the heroics to improve it. Instead, the Core Duo has a much simpler design, that is just as powerful, and because it was so simple, Core 2 Duo could improve it.
And Core 2 Duo can now execute up to four "micro-ops" per cycle, same as the G5, compared to three for Core Duo, Pentium 4 and G4. It also has some clever features that reduce the number of micro-ops needed up to 10 percent, and some other improvements.
skunk
Mar 23, 06:41 PM
Well, I suppose it really should have been ad homines — the (proper) plural would I think mitigate the gender.I'll go with that. :)
But while the author adheres to a legal argument, reality is more expansive in my mind.Indeed, the prospect of half a million or more refugees flooding neighbouring and hard-pressed countries begs the question of how much such events do in fact impact on world security.
But while the author adheres to a legal argument, reality is more expansive in my mind.Indeed, the prospect of half a million or more refugees flooding neighbouring and hard-pressed countries begs the question of how much such events do in fact impact on world security.
grum
Sep 19, 08:11 AM
It gets annoying. Why? Because it's true and most people don't want to admit it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
You may be right to a certain extent, but l i assumed that most people who want a Macbook Pro are going to be using it for intensive stuff - I was under the impressions that Macs are the platform of choice for a lot of graphics professionals etc so the high end line would have a lot of those kind of ppl buying. Granted the difference in speed will probably be fairly minimal, but when you are spending a load of cash on a top-of-the line notebook, why shouldnt you expect to have the latest and greatest technology available? It also seems quite likely they might either make them cheaper, or offer more RAM on the base model etc. so buying now unless you really have to seems foolish.
Im also not sure about your point on the resale value, i would imagine pro users probably would be concerned about which processor it had in it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
You may be right to a certain extent, but l i assumed that most people who want a Macbook Pro are going to be using it for intensive stuff - I was under the impressions that Macs are the platform of choice for a lot of graphics professionals etc so the high end line would have a lot of those kind of ppl buying. Granted the difference in speed will probably be fairly minimal, but when you are spending a load of cash on a top-of-the line notebook, why shouldnt you expect to have the latest and greatest technology available? It also seems quite likely they might either make them cheaper, or offer more RAM on the base model etc. so buying now unless you really have to seems foolish.
Im also not sure about your point on the resale value, i would imagine pro users probably would be concerned about which processor it had in it.
Erasmus
Jul 20, 11:21 PM
The nec-plus-ultra would be thinking of a result and getting it (or saying it to your computer) like a photoshop user going: "Well, I would like the sun being more dominant in that picture, the power lines removed, and make those persons look younger". Boom. It happens.
<offtopic>
That would require Artificial Intelligence. If a computer can understand your speech, recognise your choice of words and understands that you don't neccessarily mean what you say all the time, then that's AI. If it can recognise specific objects in an "analogue" media such as a photograph, (I don't care if its a digital photo or not), it's AI. If it can then implement what it has learned alongside its infinite computational precision to remake a photo, while keeping it completely realistic, and making it look exactly how we wanted it to look, that's amazing, and lots of people will be out of jobs.
But if you have an AI system working for you, what's the point of working? ;)
BTW, I mean proper "hard" AI, not some pathetic "Ooh, forom your phone number you must live there, therefore I'll direct you to that Pizza Hut outlet! Aren't I smart!" type of AI.
<rant>
Erasmus 4 AI, Nuclear Power, GM, Stem Cell Research, and every other form of Science and Technology. Our lives will only benefit from all these, as will our community and our planet.
</rant>
</offtopic>
Don't Hurt Me.
I have to ask again, even though others already have, is Kentsfield a drop-in replacement for Conroe, if either a Mid-Tower or the iMac get Conroe? (Or Cloverton or whatever the desktop one is)
Still hanging out for WWDC2006.
<offtopic>
That would require Artificial Intelligence. If a computer can understand your speech, recognise your choice of words and understands that you don't neccessarily mean what you say all the time, then that's AI. If it can recognise specific objects in an "analogue" media such as a photograph, (I don't care if its a digital photo or not), it's AI. If it can then implement what it has learned alongside its infinite computational precision to remake a photo, while keeping it completely realistic, and making it look exactly how we wanted it to look, that's amazing, and lots of people will be out of jobs.
But if you have an AI system working for you, what's the point of working? ;)
BTW, I mean proper "hard" AI, not some pathetic "Ooh, forom your phone number you must live there, therefore I'll direct you to that Pizza Hut outlet! Aren't I smart!" type of AI.
<rant>
Erasmus 4 AI, Nuclear Power, GM, Stem Cell Research, and every other form of Science and Technology. Our lives will only benefit from all these, as will our community and our planet.
</rant>
</offtopic>
Don't Hurt Me.
I have to ask again, even though others already have, is Kentsfield a drop-in replacement for Conroe, if either a Mid-Tower or the iMac get Conroe? (Or Cloverton or whatever the desktop one is)
Still hanging out for WWDC2006.
bibbz
Jun 14, 06:34 PM
I hate Radio Shack.
Salesman have their heads up their butts
or corporate does not know what to tell them.
The 4th store I called said if you have a PIN
you are guaranteed a phone.
I understand your frustration, but apple kept us all in the dark until the very last minute. Before 3:30 no body knew anything. It will take it a little while to roll down hill.
I think we all know how secretive apple is don't we?
I just manage a store in the best region in the company. We have a very effective chain of command here in E. Texas.
Salesman have their heads up their butts
or corporate does not know what to tell them.
The 4th store I called said if you have a PIN
you are guaranteed a phone.
I understand your frustration, but apple kept us all in the dark until the very last minute. Before 3:30 no body knew anything. It will take it a little while to roll down hill.
I think we all know how secretive apple is don't we?
I just manage a store in the best region in the company. We have a very effective chain of command here in E. Texas.
tjanuranus
Mar 27, 03:35 AM
I really want Lion, for the number one reason being TRIM support. I eagerly want to finally start using an SSD (specifically one from Crucial, since they make the fastest ones on the market), but have avoided doing so since the latest version Snow Leopard does not support TRIM.
It's a shame Apple is waiting so long to finally include TRIM support. Windows 7 already includes it.
I think I'll wait until 10.7.3 comes out before upgrading, though. If there are bugs in the TRIM implementation, I fear it may corrupt data.
this is not true. The Mercury elite pro SSD from OWC was just used in the fastest over clocking competition winner because it's the fastest and requires NO Trim support in OSX. I have one in my laptop right now, ZERO slow down.
http://blog.macsales.com/9530-owc-mercury-extreme-pro-re-solid-state-drive-used-to-set-overclocking-world-record
It's a shame Apple is waiting so long to finally include TRIM support. Windows 7 already includes it.
I think I'll wait until 10.7.3 comes out before upgrading, though. If there are bugs in the TRIM implementation, I fear it may corrupt data.
this is not true. The Mercury elite pro SSD from OWC was just used in the fastest over clocking competition winner because it's the fastest and requires NO Trim support in OSX. I have one in my laptop right now, ZERO slow down.
http://blog.macsales.com/9530-owc-mercury-extreme-pro-re-solid-state-drive-used-to-set-overclocking-world-record
ThomasJL
Mar 26, 09:07 AM
I really want Lion, for the number one reason being TRIM support. I eagerly want to finally start using an SSD (specifically one from Crucial, since they make the fastest ones on the market), but have avoided doing so since the latest version Snow Leopard does not support TRIM.
It's a shame Apple is waiting so long to finally include TRIM support. Windows 7 already includes it.
I think I'll wait until 10.7.3 comes out before upgrading, though. If there are bugs in the TRIM implementation, I fear it may corrupt data.
It's a shame Apple is waiting so long to finally include TRIM support. Windows 7 already includes it.
I think I'll wait until 10.7.3 comes out before upgrading, though. If there are bugs in the TRIM implementation, I fear it may corrupt data.
naco
Apr 8, 01:20 AM
What happened wasn't something Bestbuy corporate said to do. It was something each stores individual manager decided to do. Why? Who knows.
Most BestBuy stores who have a SWAS (Store within a store) Apple Store also have a representative from Apple manning the area. This Rep. sells their product and has knowledge on inventory. I would imagine that their improvement rate depends on how much Apple product is sold through their location. Possibly how this got back to Apple....
Most BestBuy stores who have a SWAS (Store within a store) Apple Store also have a representative from Apple manning the area. This Rep. sells their product and has knowledge on inventory. I would imagine that their improvement rate depends on how much Apple product is sold through their location. Possibly how this got back to Apple....
Homy
Jul 20, 11:44 AM
eight cores + Tiger = Octopussy?!?:p
bushido
Apr 12, 08:44 AM
just got sold to the HTC Sensation LOVE IT! u could wish the 5th would get half of it
NJRonbo
Jun 15, 04:31 PM
So, again I am hoping our Radio Shack rep here can tell
us if the stores will be getting shipments of the iPhone for
the general population on launch day.
I think I can persuade the owner into at least calling me at
home when his shipment arrives.
us if the stores will be getting shipments of the iPhone for
the general population on launch day.
I think I can persuade the owner into at least calling me at
home when his shipment arrives.
MacRumors
Aug 7, 03:14 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Also during Apple's WWDC keynote, Steve Jobs previewed Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard). Among the features demonstrated were:
- 64 bit (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/64bit.html) application support extended throughought the User Interface layer of the OS, allowing "full" 64-bit application development and deployment.
- Time Machine (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html), automatic backup and restoring of files corrupted or accidentally deleted or overwritten by the user.
- Spaces (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/spaces.html), Apple's implementation of virtual desktops.
- Core Animation (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/coreanimation.html)
- Enhancements to Dashboard (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/dashboard.html), Spotlight (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/spotlight.html), Mail (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/mail.html), iCal (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ical.html) and Universal Access (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/accessibility.html)
- Boot Camp, and "next generation" Front Row, and Photo Booth bundled
Apple plan to release Leopard in "Spring 2007."
More information can be found at Apple's Leopard Sneak Peek (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/) pages.
Also during Apple's WWDC keynote, Steve Jobs previewed Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard). Among the features demonstrated were:
- 64 bit (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/64bit.html) application support extended throughought the User Interface layer of the OS, allowing "full" 64-bit application development and deployment.
- Time Machine (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html), automatic backup and restoring of files corrupted or accidentally deleted or overwritten by the user.
- Spaces (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/spaces.html), Apple's implementation of virtual desktops.
- Core Animation (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/coreanimation.html)
- Enhancements to Dashboard (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/dashboard.html), Spotlight (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/spotlight.html), Mail (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/mail.html), iCal (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ical.html) and Universal Access (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/accessibility.html)
- Boot Camp, and "next generation" Front Row, and Photo Booth bundled
Apple plan to release Leopard in "Spring 2007."
More information can be found at Apple's Leopard Sneak Peek (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/) pages.
buckers
Apr 27, 09:09 AM
Good enough for me.
DocNo
Apr 11, 10:06 AM
I still think tape cameras are the best in quality, but the practicality of recording on a card or a hard drive will soon beat that.
I think Apple's timing with tomorrow is perfect for them to capitalize on this. If you watched the first two clips, the panelists talked about the lack of real standards for data and more importantly meta-data for file based workflows. They also referenced the only factory in the world that produces the most commonly used tape in pro workflow as being wiped out by the Tsunami in Japan - if Apple follows up with a new standard for file based workflow (which I fully expect them to do - skating to where the puck will be - it's a no brainer) and with Thunderbolt and a few manufacturers ready to capitalize it, I think you could see a dramatic shift in workflow since the tape situation will get dire for many. As one of the panelists pointed out, people aren't going to stop creating content just because they can't get more tape.
This might be the external catalyst that causes a dramatic shift. They are rare, but they do happen and events certainly seem to be lining up!
(I can't wait for the eventual conspiracy theorists that will no doubt claim SJ engineered the Tsunami in order to take advantage of it :rolleyes: )
I think Apple's timing with tomorrow is perfect for them to capitalize on this. If you watched the first two clips, the panelists talked about the lack of real standards for data and more importantly meta-data for file based workflows. They also referenced the only factory in the world that produces the most commonly used tape in pro workflow as being wiped out by the Tsunami in Japan - if Apple follows up with a new standard for file based workflow (which I fully expect them to do - skating to where the puck will be - it's a no brainer) and with Thunderbolt and a few manufacturers ready to capitalize it, I think you could see a dramatic shift in workflow since the tape situation will get dire for many. As one of the panelists pointed out, people aren't going to stop creating content just because they can't get more tape.
This might be the external catalyst that causes a dramatic shift. They are rare, but they do happen and events certainly seem to be lining up!
(I can't wait for the eventual conspiracy theorists that will no doubt claim SJ engineered the Tsunami in order to take advantage of it :rolleyes: )
zoran
Oct 15, 02:55 PM
... hmmm ... i just ordered a mac pro quad 3ghz ... 8 cores would be somehow nicer ;)
.a
cancel the order while its not too late! :)
.a
cancel the order while its not too late! :)
Scruff
Aug 11, 11:28 AM
This is probably the rumored Apple product I look forward to the most. Could really use a new phone, :p.
bushman4
Apr 11, 04:39 PM
Dont believe the rumors from these small brokerage analysts. Possible that Iphone5 won't launch in Juyly but not probable.
monster620ie
Apr 5, 08:57 PM
4K is coming sooner than later. Youtube has 4K media, of course it looks bad because of the YT compression penalty.
4K displays are coming too, both computer monitors and home theater.
are there any 4K tv's out ?
Red Scarlet + 4K tv (how sweet it would be. oh well, I can dream on i guess) :rolleyes:
4K displays are coming too, both computer monitors and home theater.
are there any 4K tv's out ?
Red Scarlet + 4K tv (how sweet it would be. oh well, I can dream on i guess) :rolleyes:
Warbrain
Apr 11, 11:53 AM
Just picked up a Atrix 4G and on my way checked out the iPhone 4 - it looks decidedly antique and bland in front of the competition...
And you'll be complaining about battery life and the Android experience in a few days.
And you'll be complaining about battery life and the Android experience in a few days.
WeegieMac
Apr 25, 03:17 PM
This story is hilarious, in fact the whole debacle is.
The only reason people can check what their iPhone has logged is because some idiots released open source software to check your iTunes backup.
The insinuation that a Private Investigator could track your movements, as was suggested, is idiotic since a) they'd need access to your computer, b) need have access to your iTunes backup, and c) have the program released installed on your computer to check.
The second notion, that you could be caught cheating by your partner, here's a hint: Don't be a cheating c*nt then. And again, you'd need to have a tech savvy partner.
Massively blown out of proportion, but it's only because it's Apple. Google can drive down your street and film you for their street view maps. Sure, they edit out faces and license plates when the images are put online, but the original unedited images are kept at Google. Nosey b*stards.
The only reason people can check what their iPhone has logged is because some idiots released open source software to check your iTunes backup.
The insinuation that a Private Investigator could track your movements, as was suggested, is idiotic since a) they'd need access to your computer, b) need have access to your iTunes backup, and c) have the program released installed on your computer to check.
The second notion, that you could be caught cheating by your partner, here's a hint: Don't be a cheating c*nt then. And again, you'd need to have a tech savvy partner.
Massively blown out of proportion, but it's only because it's Apple. Google can drive down your street and film you for their street view maps. Sure, they edit out faces and license plates when the images are put online, but the original unedited images are kept at Google. Nosey b*stards.
AppleKrate
Sep 19, 10:49 AM
The MacBookPro is still too new a release to have the major type of changes you and others are hoping for. All you're going to get for the next year or two is speed bumps and maybe an upgrade in HD capacity, Graphics card, or Optical Drive (Blue-Ray or HD-DVD)
Basically I see two types of users in here pleading for the newer chips: the average users who just "like the idea of fast" when it really does them no good, and the professionals who are consistantly holding out for something better. The professionals are few and far between.
Please tell me what is majorly new about the current MacBook Pro besides an intel chip :confused: (and the name of course :rolleyes: )
PS how about an amateur professional? If not, maybe a professional amateur?
Basically I see two types of users in here pleading for the newer chips: the average users who just "like the idea of fast" when it really does them no good, and the professionals who are consistantly holding out for something better. The professionals are few and far between.
Please tell me what is majorly new about the current MacBook Pro besides an intel chip :confused: (and the name of course :rolleyes: )
PS how about an amateur professional? If not, maybe a professional amateur?
portishead
Apr 12, 12:28 PM
Why are you endorsing lack of improvement?
Nooooo not at all. You missed my next post with my feature requests. I'm just giving people a hard time about complaining that FCP isn't good enough. It has bugs, and it's quirky, but it mostly works.
Nooooo not at all. You missed my next post with my feature requests. I'm just giving people a hard time about complaining that FCP isn't good enough. It has bugs, and it's quirky, but it mostly works.
Denarius
Mar 22, 03:22 PM
A government in power is responding against a rebellion.
If a rebellion sprang up in the United States, our government would respond with force as well.
"Slaughtering his own people" sounds a little propogandish to me. Are you saying that Qaddafi is taking people who have no connection to the rebellion at all and slaughtering them?
How can any government meet armed internal rebellion without qualifying as "slaughtering their own people"?
It wasn't a rebellion when it first started, it was an unarmed march protesting against the number of people in Benghazi that had just disappeared in Benghazi over many years. They had some footage from the start of the protests on BBC's Panorama last night showing the march. Some guys in yellow builder's hats came in with a mixture of sticks and guns and started killing people at random, which is when it started escalating into a full-blown rebellion.
If a rebellion sprang up in the United States, our government would respond with force as well.
"Slaughtering his own people" sounds a little propogandish to me. Are you saying that Qaddafi is taking people who have no connection to the rebellion at all and slaughtering them?
How can any government meet armed internal rebellion without qualifying as "slaughtering their own people"?
It wasn't a rebellion when it first started, it was an unarmed march protesting against the number of people in Benghazi that had just disappeared in Benghazi over many years. They had some footage from the start of the protests on BBC's Panorama last night showing the march. Some guys in yellow builder's hats came in with a mixture of sticks and guns and started killing people at random, which is when it started escalating into a full-blown rebellion.
HecubusPro
Aug 27, 12:08 PM
But that doesn't make Nintendo (or Microsoft or Sony) suck. Fanboys just make themselves suck by being fanboys. :)
You are correct, sir.:D
You are correct, sir.:D
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